Estimated Picton Y-DNA History

The Picton family tests positive for the SNP's U106/S21+, L48+, L47+, L44+, L163, L46+, L45+, L164, L237, L477, L493 and L525+. There may be more as more testing is done.

It has been established that the largest haplogroup among men of European ancestry is R1b-M269. The subclade called U106/S21+ may represents 25% of the R1b-M269 male population. It is estimated that the first U106/S21+ man lived 3,000 to 7,000 years ago. Some think the first U106 man lived somewhere in the lower part of Sweden. There is much debate about all this.

The Picton Family is part of this U106/S21+ subclade. My ancestors have been traced back to Philip Picton born about the year 1260. All my male ancestors back and including Philip Picton have to be Haplogroup U106 and have similar SNP markers. All different Picton lines DNA tested thus far from Pembrokeshire, Wales show we are related and most likely share the same ancestor line descending from Philip Picton. The problem is finding where the different lines branched off my Picton line. Very few U106 famlies can trace there ancestors back to the year 1240. This is what makes the Picton Family Tree back to the year 1240 so important for doing research on the origins of U106.

The following information was displayed at Picton Castle, Pembrokeshire, Wales and is the earliest known reference of my name Picton:

"Year 1108

Henry I (of England) settled a large force of Flemings, who had been displaced from Flanders by inundations of the sea. In the centref of Rhos and the western half of Daugleddau.

Wizo, the Flemish warlord seized the latter area, built a motte and bailey castle at Wiston (Wizo’s ton or settlement) about 3 miles NNE of Picton, and this became his base for the subjection of the area. At first his knights would have lived in his household at Wiston, but after the pacification of the district they were planted on estates for FEES, one of which was Picton. The original earth work castle of Picton stands a few hundred yards East of the present castle entrance."

Could Wizo the Fleming or some of those with him be of the YDNA Haplogroup R1b-U106/S21+? Was the ancestor of Philip Picton be with this group coming from Flanders?

A very early Welsh family tree said the ancestor of Philip Picton was a foreigner. Where did the the first Picton in Pembrokeshire, Wales come from? Did he come from Flanders, Normandy, or France? It is hoped that with additional DNA testing of individuals from these locations that a match can be found. It is surprising that a close match with anyone including anyone in Wales has not been found except those with the last name of Picton.

Current projected journey for the ancestors of Owen Picton

The article first gives information on the female mitochonrial DNA for the haplogroup that the boy has.

The article then also talks about the 24,000 year old male Y DNA Chromosome being an ancestor to haplogroup R which the Picton family belongs too. Could the ancestor to haplogroup R have spread out of India to both North to Siberia 24,000 years ago and also West to Europe by 5,000 years ago? Some believe that the ancestor to haplogroup R was in Malaysia 39,000 years ago, then traveled to India, then West to Europe. Languages in Europe are Indo-European and are believed to have come out of India. The 24,000 year old grave gives a hint where our Picton ancestors were nearly 24,000 years ago. Y DNA testing of graves in Europe has not found any males with Y DNA Chromosome haplogroup R older than 5,000. Those older than 5,000 years are something other than haplogroup R. Europe now has a male population that is about 30% to 40% haplogroup R. What happen to make all these men not haplogroup R in Europe disappear 5,000 years ago?

A more recent alternate theory is that the Indo-European people came from a European ghost population called ANE, (Ancient Northern Europeans) who many think came from a tribe of people called the Yamnaya Tribe that left there homeland about 8,000 years ago. The Yamnaya Tribe came from the Black Sea (Crimea, Ukraine area) with some going East into India and others going West to European. A Dr Hammer reported testing SNP samples. They now have 160 ancient YDNA samples (from Europe to the steppes of Russia) using atDNA in 2015 vs 74 last year which can be tested for SNP R1b. R1b is traced to ANE via a mass migration from this steppes of Russia in the Bronze Age. Several date this Yamnaya movement into Europe at 4,500 years ago. All of the Yamnaya samples are R1b but there were no R1b in the Yamnaya during the Ice Age. The R1b derives from East Asian group P. The East Asian group had to mix with the Yamnaya Tribe before they entered Europe so that the Yamnaya Tribe can bring R1b into Europe. R1b is the ancestor to the Y-DNA R-L477 Picton surname. Europe was settled by three groups which are:

WHG = Western Hunter Gatherers = more in Northern Europe

EEF = Early European Farmers = more in Southern Europe

ANE = Ancient North Eurasian, perhaps originally from Siberia by the Yamnaya Tribe

The following current projections were taken from information by Charles Moore

The Haplogroup R that made it to Europe divided with R1b being a major part that made it to Europe. R1b references have previously typically begun with R1b-M269. However, as a result of the recent discovery of its immediate subclade R1b-L23, and L23's subclade L51, and L51's subclade L11 (the parent of U106 and P312), it has become reasonably clear, despite somewhat smallish numbers, that M269 and its immediate subclade L23, both characterized by the ancestral DYS STR 393=12, originated not far from the origin of R1b itself, somewhere near the Caspian Sea.

They descend from groups on the North side of the Black Sea, who may have moved west anywhere between the Danube on the South and the Baltic shore on the North. Some L23s made their way into Europe naturally, especially into Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and notably, southern Italy.

Nevertheless, it now seems clear that the L23 subclade L51 is the start of a virtually uniquely European form of R1b, which probably originated somewhere not far from Istanbul, and which is also conveniently characterized by the extremely highly correlating change to 393=13.

Consequently, with due respect to the small numbers of L23s in Europe, we can now begin European originated R1b subclades with L51 and its 393=13 count.

Many believe that the L51 subclade L11 must have split into two groups, southeast of the Alps, taking various rivers in different directions. The one for P312 and its subclades and family SNPS comes first, followed by the one for our own U106.

The group that became P312 took the southern route south of the Alps, and somewhere near the Riviera, P312 formed and flourished, and populated Spain, France, Britain, and Ireland.

Meanwhile, the group that became U106 moved north of the Alps and then west on the Danube towards the Rhine. Somehow the Picton family (who are U106) ended up in Wales

Current projected journey DATES for the ancestors of Owen Picton

Looking at it in reverse with estimated time frames from information by Charles Moore.

Realize that the following are only estimates based on the mutation rates of the STR;s after a SNP was created.

The MRCA (most recent common ancestor) of the L45+ is about 131 AD.

The MRCA of the L44+ is about 1871 BC.

The MRCA of the L47+ is about 2347 BC.

The MRCA (most recent common ancestor) of the L48+ testers in the project is about 2849 BC, and I would suggest that this person most likely lived in or not too far from the Rhine valley.

The MRCA of the U106 project members lived about 3041 BC, perhaps not too far from the Danube. The Danube, running east, and the Rhine, running north, reach within 30 miles of one another north of western Switzerland.

The MRCA of U106 and P312, who would have been an L11, lived about 3041 BC, perhaps not too far from the lower Danube, or in the upper Balkans.

The MRCA of that group and the L11* group, before 3041 BC, perhaps in the Balkans.

The MRCA of the L11s and the L51* group, who would have been an L51, lived before 3041 BC, perhaps not too far from Istanbul.

The MRCA of the L51s and the L23* group, an L23, lived before 3041 BC in SW Asia, perhaps not far from the Caspian Sea.

Somewhat less clear is the MRCA of the L23s and the M269* group, an M269, who lived in that area before 3041 BC.

Discussion on U106 and P312

Taken from information by Charles Moore.

Since the recent discovery of the M269 SNP cascade running through L23 to L51 to L11, I think from a general European R1b standpoint, or at least from a P312 and U106 standpoint, it may make sense for most of us to start using L51 as a sort-of base point. This is the group that highly correlates with the change to 393=13, instead of the previous 12, which highly correlates with the L23s found much more in SW Asia, the Caucasus, and Russia, than in Central or Western Europe.

The L11*, L51*, and L23* testing groups are very small, so we have to be careful. Vince is working with these testers, so that is ideal. AS far as I know, L51 and L11 may be concentrated primarily in the Balkans. So certainly from a further migration into Europe standpoint, the lower Danube would be an obvious route, even though working upstream.

These dates and locations seem to make clear that old theories about the last ice age, the Iberian peninsula, and the Baltic, don't work well with the "big picture".

If we look at a good map of Europe in total, and we focus on Central Europe, the Balkans, the Danube, the Alps, and the Rhine, we can gain a good picture of our early L11 ancestors making their way through that central area about 1500 BC. Ultimately, the P312s would dominate Spain, France, Britain, and Ireland, while the smaller U106 would be more prevalent in the Netherlands, Germany, and Austria, with a bit less concentration in Britain, Denmark, Switzerland, and the Czech Republic, per the Myres study.

As always with genealogy, and genetic genealogy is not really too different in that regard, everyone is free to imagine their own theories in areas where we will perhaps never really know with a very high degree of certainty, what the facts really are.

I thought for a long time, and rarely said so, that the old dating estimates for our group were way too long into the past. Now I have become concerned that the current dating estimates are starting to look too short! Was our group really this late to arrive on the scene?

The below was the understanding in 2006 but there has been changes sense then

DNA Migration Research for Owen Samuel PICTON

copied from information produced by National Geographic


Migration map for the ancestors of Owen Samuel Picton over the last 50,000 years


The below was the understanding in 2006 but there has been changes sense then

Genetic History Journey for Owen Samuel Picton from Genographic Project at National Geographic

Your Y chromosome results identify you as a member of haplogroup R1b, a lineage defined by a genetic marker called M343. This haplogroup is the final destination of a genetic journey that began some 60,000 years ago with an ancient Y chromosome marker called M168.

The very widely dispersed M168 marker can be traced to a single individual—"Eurasian Adam." This African man, who lived some 31,000 to 79,000 years ago, is the common ancestor of every non-African person living today. His descendants migrated out of Africa and became the only lineage to survive away from humanity's home continent.

Population growth during the Upper Paleolithic era may have spurred the M168 lineage to seek new hunting grounds for the plains animals crucial to their survival. A period of moist and favorable climate had expanded the ranges of such animals at this time, so these nomadic peoples may have simply followed their food source.

Improved tools and rudimentary art appeared during this same epoch, suggesting significant mental and behavioral changes. These shifts may have been spurred by a genetic mutation that gave "Eurasian Adam's" descendants a cognitive advantage over other contemporary, but now extinct, human lineages.

Some 90 to 95 percent of all non-Africans are descendants of the second great human migration out of Africa, which is defined by the marker M89.

M89 first appeared 45,000 years ago in Northern Africa or the Middle East. It arose on the original lineage (M168) of "Eurasian Adam," and defines a large inland migration of hunters who followed expanding grasslands and plentiful game to the Middle East.

Many people of this lineage remained in the Middle East, but others continued their movement and followed the grasslands through Iran to the vast steppes of Central Asia. Herds of buffalo, antelope, woolly mammoths, and other game probably enticed them to explore new grasslands.

With much of Earth's water frozen in massive ice sheets, the era's vast steppes stretched from eastern France to Korea. The grassland hunters of the M89 lineage traveled both east and west along this steppe "superhighway" and eventually peopled much of the continent.

A group of M89 descendants moved north from the Middle East to Anatolia and the Balkans, trading familiar grasslands for forests and high country. Though their numbers were likely small, genetic traces of their journey are still found today.

Some 40,000 years ago a man in Iran or southern Central Asia was born with a unique genetic marker known as M9, which marked a new lineage diverging from the M89 group. His descendants spent the next 30,000 years populating much of the planet.

Most residents of the Northern Hemisphere trace their roots to this unique individual, and carry his defining marker. Nearly all North Americans and East Asians have the M9 marker, as do most Europeans and many Indians. The haplogroup defined by M9, K, is known as the Eurasian Clan.

This large lineage dispersed gradually. Seasoned hunters followed the herds ever eastward, along a vast belt of Eurasian steppe, until the massive mountain ranges of south central Asia blocked their path.

The Hindu Kush, Tian Shan, and Himalaya, even more formidable during the era's ice age, divided eastward migrations. These migrations through the "Pamir Knot" region would subsequently become defined by additional genetic markers.

The marker M45 first appeared about 35,000 to 40,000 years ago in a man who became the common ancestor of most Europeans and nearly all Native Americans. This unique individual was part of the M9 lineage, which was moving to the north of the mountainous Hindu Kush and onto the game-rich steppes of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and southern Siberia.

The M45 lineage survived on these northern steppes even in the frigid Ice Age climate. While big game was plentiful, these resourceful hunters had to adapt their behavior to an increasingly hostile environment. They erected animal skin shelters and sewed weathertight clothing. They also refined the flint heads on their weapons to compensate for the scarcity of obsidian and other materials.

The intelligence that allowed this lineage to adapt and thrive in harsh conditions was critical to human survival in a region where no other hominids are known to have survived.

Members of haplogroup R are descendents of Europe's first large-scale human settlers. The lineage is defined by Y chromosome marker M173, which shows a westward journey of M45-carrying Central Asian steppe hunters.

The descendents of M173 arrived in Europe around 35,000 years ago and immediately began to make their own dramatic mark on the continent. Famous cave paintings, like those of Lascaux and Chauvet, signal the sudden arrival of humans with artistic skill. There are no artistic precedents or precursors to their appearance.

Soon after this lineage's arrival in Europe, the era of the Neandertals came to a close. Genetic evidence proves that these hominids were not human ancestors but an evolutionary dead end. Smarter, more resourceful human descendents of M173 likely outcompeted Neandertals for scarce Ice Age resources and thus heralded their demise.

The long journey of this lineage was further shaped by the preponderance of ice at this time. Humans were forced to southern refuges in Spain, Italy, and the Balkans. Years later, as the ice retreated, they moved north out of these isolated refuges and left an enduring, concentrated trail of the M173 marker in their wake.

Today, for example, the marker's frequency remains very high in northern France and the British Isles—where it was carried by M173 descendents who had weathered the Ice Age in Spain.

Members of haplogroup R1b, defined by M343 are the direct descendents of Europe's first modern humans—known as the Cro-Magnon people.

Cro-Magnons arrived in Europe some 35,000 years ago, during a time when Neandertals still lived in the region. M343-carrying peoples made woven clothing and constructed huts to withstand the frigid climes of the Upper Paleolithic era. They used relatively advanced tools of stone, bone, and ivory. Jewelry, carvings, and intricate, colorful cave paintings bear witness to the Cro Magnons' surprisingly advanced culture during the last glacial age.

When the ice retreated genetically homogenous groups recolonized the north, where they are still found in high frequencies. Some 70 percent of men in southern England are R1b. In parts of Spain and Ireland that number exceeds 90 percent.

There are many sublineages within R1b that are yet to be defined. The Genographic Project hopes to bring future clarity to the disparate parts of this distinctive European lineage.

I submitted my DNA to the Genographic Project at National Geographic in December, 2005. They provided me with the above information and migration history of my ancestor origin for over the last 50,000 years.

Please click on above line if you wish to go to the Genographic Project website for DNA Research by National Geographic. Then select "Atlas of the Human Journey". Go to "Genetic Markers, select for my M343 and then travel back from there. You may also do other searching.

Picton Y DNA Information

Comments on James D. Watson and Craig Venter

The human genome sequence [HUGO = Human Genome Organisation] has resulted in the full DNA sequence for James D. Watson and recently for Craig Venter. It appears that they both have a Haplogroup assignment of R1b1a2a1a1 (also known as S21+) which is the same for the Picton family. Could it be that these two individuals and the Picton's have the same direct male line ancestor who has lived within the last 5000 years? I suggest that you do a google on R1b1a2a1a1 (R1b1b2a1a*) and Watson or Venter to see what you find. Craig Venter also tests positive for L48+, L47+, L44+, L46+, L525+, L45+ and R-L493 (same as myself) so he is now Haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1c2b1a1a1a.

Below Watson and Venter information taken from information by Charles Moore.

As many know, James Watson's and Craig Venter's entire 6 billion base pair human genomes were mapped several years ago, at something like a million dollars each. The 23 chromosomes have an average of about 260 million base pairs each. The Y chromosome has "only" about 57 million base pairs. Mitochondria has 16,000.

To confirm Watson's and Venter's status with regard to presently known Y SNPs, I consulted with published lists of their Y SNPs, which are much easier than looking at their published genomes.

James Watson is R1b-U106*.

He is positive for U106 and negative for all of its known published subclades, including U198, L1, P107, L5, L6, P89.2, L127, and L48. To be extra thorough, I also confirmed that he is negative for L48 subclades L47 and L148, and the U106 brother clade P312.

Watson has lots of otherwise unknown SNPs, many of which are probably ancestral of U106 and therefore not very meaningful to us. Presumably some day, someone will match him at a SNP that is descendant of U106, and he will no longer be U106*. Until then, he obviously remains of interest to everyone who is also U106*. To remind everyone, that term means positive for U106, but negative for all of its known subclades.

Craig Venter is R-L292, the last in the line of known descendant SNPs running in order descendantly from U106 via L48, then L47, L44, L46, L525, L45, L493 and L292. He is also positive for L292, which is after L493.

I checked Venter's SNP list for all of the SNPs descendant of U106 to be thorough. He is negative for all of them except the group which I sometimes call a "SNP cascade" descendant of L48 via L47 as mentioned above.

Comments about Haplogroup assignment of R1b1a2a1a1. (also known as U106/S21+)

Rev. Thomas Picton came to United States in the late 1700's from Wales. Rev. Thomas Picton had a father named Owen Picton, a grandfather named John Picton of Ty'rBwlch Farm and an uncle named Thomas Picton of Ty'rBwlch Farm. I am descendant from Thomas Picton of Ty'rBwlch Farm so we are related to Rev. Thomas Picton. I have pictures on this website of Ty'rBwlch Farm. Ty'rBwlch Farm is now part of a national park and it is even against the law to pick a flower from the yard because at the top of the hill above Ty'rBwlch Farm is where the stones for Stone Hinge were mined. One can go there, walk around where my ancestors lived and even stay at Trellyffaint Farm where my ancestor another Owen Picton lived about 500 years ago.

We have compared my DNA to a descendant of Rev. Thomas Picton and proved we are related. I think we differ by 1 marker when comparing 43 DYS martkers. There is a marker mutation rate so there should be a difference. Almost every male from my line with the last name Picton has DNA with the test results of R1b U106-S21+ and we all would tested positive for L48, L47, L44, L46, L525, L45, and L493.

The Picton family are descendant from Philip Picton born 1240 in Pembrokeshire, Wales. He is believed to be the younger brother of Sir William Picton of Picton Castle in Pembrokeshire, Wales. Descendants of Sir William Picton through his daughter Joan Picton still live at Picton Castle, which makes this the longest known and documented living place by one family in the world. Picton Castle is one of the better and I feel beautiful castles in Wales.

Wizo the Fleming

The following statement I found at Picton Castle, Pembrokeshire, Wales about Picton at the time nine hundred years ago: "Year 1108

Henry I (of England) settled a large force of Flemings, who had been displaced from Flanders by inundations of the sea. In the centref of Rhos and the western half of Daugleddau.

Wizo, the Flemish warlord seized the latter area, built a motte and bailey castle at Wiston (Wizo’s ton or settlement) about 3 miles NNE of Picton, and this became his base for the subjection of the area. At first his knights would have lived in his household at Wiston, but after the pacification of the district they were planted on estates for FEES, one of which was Picton. The original earth work castle of Picton stands a few hundred yards East of the present castle entrance."

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