Discover Picton Family History
Paper-Based Documentation and Y-Chromosme DNA Analysis
Brian Picton Swann, Owen S. Picton, Jeanette Froeschner and Dean A. Picton
Picton Genealogical Pictorial Tour of Wales- by Owen Picton
Picton Y-DNA Family Tree Discussion- From first Adam to now
Brian Picton Swann Thinking- A number of years ago
Two Family Trees- A Genealogical Tree and a Genetic Tree
Your Family Tree - Past, Present and Future - The number of ancestors you have and will have
European (Autosomal) DNA - What is in European Chromosomes that some Picton descendants may have
Join and Do Picton Y-DNA Testing and Research- Select either Y Results or Join
Brian Picton Swann is the ISOGG Regional Co-ordinator and England & Wales-For more about ISOGG -click here
Please click under lined item to select:
Y CHROMOSOME DNA TESTING
We recommend that you test at Family Tree DNA for STR markers because we have an established Picton Project there and there is a discount involved. A DNA test will indicate if you belong to the Picton families from Pembrokeshire. Please help and contribute to our family knowledge pool by contacting us and sharing what information you know about your own Picton family connections. We have DNA results from some Picton families with origins other than Wales.
We strongly recommend also that you begin by testing your Y-DNA initially first for the 37 STR markers offered by FTDNA. An additional Deep Ancestry test for the SNP L46 at FTDNA; is an additional option if you have been tested at these STR markers. Picton families from Pembrokeshire should all tests positive for this SNP as the lowest downstream Haplogroup marker. At present this is the deepest SNP applicable to the Picton surname families of Welsh origin. If you test for this SNP, you can also join the R1b-U106/S21+ Project at FTDNA which is a Yahoo Groups Forum dedicated to discussion on the origins and downstream markers from this SNP. To view the R1b-U106_S21 Bulletin Board messages and latest results at FTDNA - click here[BPS1] ..
You may match the DNA of the Picton families from Wales if you match the two STRs shown below and your last name is Picton:
If your last name is not Picton, you must also test positive for the SNP L46.
Currently 11 members belonging to the Picton Surname Project show a connection to Wales. Three other members show a totally different origin of the surname and two members are connected to Wales according to the paper records, but this is not confirmed by their DNA test results.
You should join ysearch if you have STRs tested at either company.
Picton Y-DNA Research SNP Results
The PICTON Family DNA Haplogroup was R1b1b2a1a4 (ISOGG Tree, 2009)
and now is R1b1a2a1a1c2b1a1a1a (ISOGG Tree, 2014) or called R-L493 or R-L477
The Picton Family from Wales belong to the R1b Haplogroup and in addition test positive for the following SNPs:
U106/S21+, Z381+, L48+, L47+, L44+, L46+, L525+, L45+ and L493+
A Deep-R SNP subclade test for Owen Samuel Picton was made by Ethnoancestry and by Family Tree DNA (FTDNA). These tests showed the Picton families from Wales to be part of the R1b-M269 subclade called Haplogroup R1b-U106 (or R1b-U106/S21+). This was previously known as Haplogroup R1b1c9*, then Haplogroup R1b1b2g and then R1b1b2a1a*. A convenient way to describe these Haplogroups is just to use the last SNP marker which tests positive. On this basis the Picton Haplogroup is R-L493 or R-L477. An age estimate for the R-L48 ancestor is about 2661 BC (2199 BC - 1740 BC).
The Haplogroup SNP test results from FTDNA shows the Picton family tests positive for markers levels U106, Z381, L48, L47, L44, L46, L525, L45 and L493. The Picton family has a Haplogroup currently assigned as R-L493 or R-L477 because both test to the same lowest level. This Haplogroup designation may change when names are given for any new SNPs discovered. An evolving nomenclature is to name the Haplogroup after the last SNP in the descent tree. In this case it would be R-L493 or R-L477. If you are R-L493 then your are R-L477.
MY Picton Y Chromosome (Male) Family Tree
Please click Under-Lined item to select:
We have come a long way in 10 years. We did all the following with the help and aid of Brian Swann. I still have the Email from National Geographic written in December of 2005 confirming my order for a DNA test. Then I had a test from a company in England that determined that I had SNP S21 which is now also called U106. I did additional tests over time to determine my DNA family tree. A test showed I had SNP L48, another test showed that I was under L47, then L44, then L46, then L525, then L45, then L493, then FGC10247 and finally down to two unique SNP's 17150591/(FGC10255) and 18073982/(FGC10258). Look below, especially at line U106 including below it and notice the details found and the research made in accomplishing this task. This is in the male Y-DNA Chromosome for the Picton Family Tree. What will the next 10 years bring?
This discuss only covers male Y-DNA as follows and does not cover other parts of DNA (atDNA) such as European (Autosomal) DNA - that is mine in the European Chromosomes that European descendants may have, or my unique Mothers line X-DNA Chromosome Maternal Line Information that goes back 13 Generations to 1601 and is female Mitochonrial DNA Haplogroup H1aj. Just starting at Y-DNA Haplogroup R1b (Yamnaya tribe below) to now, I and all of us direct male descendants have inherited 100% of the Y-DNA plus the mutations that have occurred (passed down father to son only and not diluted) and 0.00% of each individulal of the atDNA from the Yamnaya tribe but a much larger percentage if you consider the Yamnaya tribe as a whole. The atDNA was redistributed, diluted and over time we completely lose the atDNA of our long ago individual maternal ancestors.
My below male Y-DNA family tree contains estimated dates for the SNP when the time period for the MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor) lived. Each YDNA Haplogroup break is a start of a new SNP where many different paths branch out. These are only my ancestor branches. Each SNP or branch is similar to a family surname before the time of surnames.
Warning: The ages and physical locations are given to best describe the current DNA data and may not be accurate.
YDNA Haplogroup is Y-chromosomal Adam. First Man (Adam) with age about 200,000 to 300,000 years *YBP (“Years Before Present,” starting with 1950 AD as the most recent base year). Note: A time frame of more than 100,000 years ago can not be measured by the radiocarbon dating method because carbon in what once was living matter in anything older than 100,000 years ago has reached its maximum deterioration similar to carbon in matter that was never in living matter. Carbon dating works because the carbon-14 isotope is produced in the upper atmosphere by cosmic rays. Plants absorb CO2 from the air; animals eat the plants. Therefore, you can work out when something died up to between 50,000 to 100,000 years ago by measuring how much of the carbon-14 has radioactively decayed. Carbon-14 dating is designed to work on things that once were living. Carbon-14 dating will not work on carbon that never was in living matter because the CO2 embedded in none living matter has not been part of the atmosphere for a long time.
YDNA Haplogroup is A0-T
YDNA Haplogroup is A1
YDNA Haplogroup is A1b
YDNA Haplogroup is BT with age estimated between 70,000 to 80,000 Years *YBP. YBP possible origin is Africa.
YDNA Haplogroup is CT. CT possible origin is East Africa or Asia.
YDNA Haplogroup is CF with age estimated between 70,000 to 75,000 Years YBP.
YDNA Haplogroup is F age estimated between 70,000 to 75,000 Years YBP. F possible origin is South Asia or Arabian Peninsula.
YDNA Haplogroup is GHIJK
YDNA Haplogroup is HIJK. HIJK possible origin is Southwest Asia or South Asia.
YDNA Haplogroup is IJK with age estimated between 47,000 to 60,000 Years YBP.
YDNA Haplogroup is K. K possible origin is South or Western Asia.
YDNA Haplogroup is K2 with age estimated between 47,000 to 55,000 Years YBP.
YDNA Haplogroup is K2b with age estimated between 37,000 to 47,300 Years YBP.
YDNA Haplogroup is P with age estimated between 27,000 to 45,000 Years YBP. An Eastern European hunter-gatherers group with Y-DNA P are ancestors to Y-DNA R.
YDNA Haplogroup is R with age estimated between 24,000 to 34,300 Years YBP. R origin may be in Central or South Asia.
YDNA Haplogroup is R1 with age estimated between 12,500 to 25,700 Years YBP. The Eastern European hunter-gatherers group inter marry with a group of people trapped in the Black Sea (Crimea, Ukraine area) called Western Steppe Populations for up to 15,000 years by the last ice age to form the Yamnaya Tribe. This causes the male ancestor Y-DNA for Rib DNA to now be in the Yamnaya Tribe. This may also be called the Western steppe populations which have taller genes.
YDNA Haplogroup is R1b (R-M343/etc with age less than 18,500 years YBP. R1b history and origin is now the Yamnaya Tribe (Yamna people) leaving the Black Sea (Crimea, Ukraine area) about 8,000 Years YBP. All of the R1b in Western Europe is assumed to have come from one L11 man but the L11 man was not born in the Western Steppes of Russia because there are no successful known P312 or U106 basal branches in the Western Steppe at present. By falsely assuming L11 was founded in the Western Steppe, then the lack of L11 branches unique to Western Steppe countries is the reason L11 is expected to be founded in Europe.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-P25/etc
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L389/etc age 13,800 BC
YDNA Haplogroup is R-P297/etc age 13,200 BC. About a 14,000 YBP age grave (Ice Age) has been found in Villabruna, Italy.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-M269/etc (R1b1a2) formed in the Western Steppes about 4065 BC (4400 BC) because of the multiple ancient M269 burials in the Steppe, the lack of burials in Europe, and the distribution of M269xL23 in south-west Russia, the Ukraine and Causasus. Indo-European languages form an additional connection. They are common where R1b-M269 is found. The Yamna people were a highly mobile steppe culture of pastoral nomads who probably originated from Eastern Europe, between the Lower Don, the Lower Volga and North Caucasus, between 3300 and 2700 BCE. As the Yamna people moved eastwards , they may have used the Hexi Corridor region – a historical route which would later form part of the Northern Silk Road – as a hub for an East Asian spread of cultural elements, domesticated animals and plants. They domesticated horses, which they rode to manage cattle herds.These horse-riding skills also gave them the possibility to travel long distances and spread their culture and agricultural practices across large stretches of land. The leading hypothesis is that the Proto-Indo-European language originated in the Western Steppes, in contact with Uralic (Ural Mountains of central Russia) speakers. One 14,000 YBP age grave has been found in Europe with ancestors to R1b-M269 DNA prior to the Bronze Age. Few R-M269 Y-DNA ancestors existed in Europe prior to about 2500 BC and now makes up over half the male population. Modern populations show that R-M269xL11 strongly concentrates in south-eastern Europe, with excursions into the Middle East and western former USSR. It is not generally found in Western Europe.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L23 is believed to have formed in the Western Steppes about 3936 BC
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L51/etc age 3550 BC. The presence of L51+ L11- branches in the Western Steppes of Russia is the reason it is supposed that L51 was founded in the Western Steppe. So the migration to Europe if this happen as expected, comes between occurrence of L51 and L11.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L11/etc age 2777 BC. With L11 is believed to have formed in Europe about 5,000 years ago. This is suggested because of the lack of L11 burials in the Steppe, but a number of L11>P312 and single L11>U106 ancient burials in Europe. It fits current time frames given for the Western Steppe migration in some recent study's. Iain McDonald says "Allentoft and other recent studies (Haak, Lazardis, etc.) give a very strong indication that L11 formed and arrived in north-western / north-central Europe around 3000 BC. Archaeologically, it ties in very well with the Corded Ware culture and its precursors. The earliest M269 (probably L11xU106), remains we have, are those from Kromsdorf. Those individuals died before 2500 BC. The latest pre-Corded Ware burials are those from Esperstedt and Salzmuende, buried after 3400 BC. We can therefore be pretty confident that L11 arrived in modern-day Germany at some point between 3400 BC and 2500 BC. We don't know if it was with the Corded Ware culture, shortly before them (e.g. the associated Globular Amphorae culture), or shortly after the initial wave." Modern populations show that R-L11 is now largely confined to Europe.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-P311/etc age 2712 BC. Below this level R-P311 splits into two branches which are the larger R-P312 and my below smaller R-U106. Both R-P312 (R1b1a2a1a2) and R-U106 (R1b1a2a1a1) formed in Europe. The Oblaczkowo in Poland (2865-2578 BC, Corded Ware), results slightly favor an arrival of our ancestors via a route north of the Carpathian mountains, rather than to the south via the River Danube. A major P312 group can be traced back to near the Black Forest or Czech Republic. The markedly different distributions of the P312 subclades (U152, L21, DF27) indicate that P312 continued to migrate and expand. The similar distributions of the U106 subclades (Z18, Z381, L48) suggest it initially stayed put. The upper clades of U106 show no obvious differences in distribution across Europe. This implies a near-stationary population for at least 300 years. In fact, it is difficult to identify clear signs of migration until nearly 1000 years after U106 formed. It is believed that the P312 and U106 ancestors came from the Steppes of Russia.
YDNA Haplogroup is **R-U106/S21 age 3022 BC (3699 BC - 2465 BC). In addition to the information that follows, there is an article about U106 and a Website Devoted to R-U106 Research. It is known that U106 believed in Bohemia, (Czech Republic) (maybe Germany or Southern Sweden). Actual 4,000 year old remains have been found in Sweden that are U106+. A leading hypothesis is that U106 arrival in Central Europe is associated with Corded Ware culture arrival in about 2900-2600 BC. Some estimate the Corded Ware migration speed east to west at about 10 miles per year. At the same time the R-U106 population was expected to have been expanding at roughly 40% per generation. Some suggest this could mean that the population would triple or even quadruple within 125 years, and travel over 1000 miles from from where they started. Now, most U106 are probably not Germanic. R-U106 represents about 1/8 of the male population of Europe. A five year old study and map where U106 men currently exist in Europe is at U106 Location Study and Map (Look at Table 1 for the frequencies of different haplogroups and at Figure 4 for a map of U106/S21 locations). It is estimated that U106 did not arrive at the earliest in the British Isles until 2000 BC. Before U106 formed, the U106 ancestors had to travel from the Black Sea (Crimea, Ukraine area) to this area over a time frame between 8,000 YBP to 4524 YBP (2574 BC). The entire surviving U106 Haplogroup has a dearth of clade formation in the 1400 to 400 BC period meaning a population bottleneck occurred in that time frame and very few U106 survived. What could it have been? Maybe it was something like this Huge Bronze Age Battle about 3,000 years ago or something similar. It is not known at the present time if any of these people in the battle were U106. The two oldest U106 graves also known as (R1ba2a1a1) graves found in England near ancient York are from the Roman period (pre-Anglo-Saxon). The further distributions of U106 mutating to Z381 mutating to Z18 then mutating to Z301 suggest they probably originated in the same tribe, since similar distributions are now in Europe. Today's U106 population distribution suggest a slow steady growth during its expansion.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-Z381/S263 age 2964 BC (3589 BC - 2432 BC)
YDNA Haplogroup is R-Z301/S499 age 2752 BC (3362 BC-2211 BC)
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L48/S162 is ISOGG R1b1a2a1a1c2b age 2598 BC (3182 BC - 2080 BC). Some experts say L48 represents an approximately constant percentage across the whole of Europe, not just Germany. One of the experts suggests - but who knows - that the population that L48 arose in was indistinguishable from the population that U106 arose in.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L47/S170 is ISOGG R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b1 age 2283 BC (2929 BC - 1673 BC). Some say the origins of L47 are now more simplified by the discovery of the FGC8590 founder effect in the Baltic States.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L44/S171 age 1935 BC (2631 BC - 1279 BC)
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L163/S352 is ISOGG R1b1a2a1a1c2b1a1 age 1692 (2368 BC - 1076 BC)
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L46/S172 and R-L525 age 1415 BC (2120 BC - 742 BC). The Nichols(369019)/Hallatt(131142)/Burgess(35011)/Picton(N20541)/Robinette(27477)/McKibbin(N15419)/Try(490251)/Clark(B9236)/Durr(108880) families are all R-L46. The family identification Kit Numbers such as N20541 is the number assigned by Family Tree DNA (example: N20541 is assigned to Owen Picton). Because Mr Durr has SNP L46 but not L45, it means that the Mr. Durr(108880) ancestor families split off before the R-L45 SNP occurred. Mr Durr has 29 new unique SNP's created after splitting off from Nichols/Hallatt/Burgess/Picton. How many years would it take for 29 new unique SNP's to occur? The Nichols/Hallatt/Burgess/Picton families, The Robinette/Gairson families and Mr. Durr families information is from the results of the Big Y tests run by FTDNA and the information complied in a report from a file at R1b1c_U106-S21_Haplogroup. Select the file similar to "Big Y ???.csv" and then load it into a spreadsheet. Move to the right until you see L48 and then L47 below. Some of the last L46 to L493 families are Nichols, Hallatt, Burgess, Picton, Clark, Robinette, Gairson and Durr. Then move down comparing the families. Notice the Durr family does not have L45 and the Robinette /Gairson families do not have L493.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L45/S353 and R-L164/S502 and R-L237 age 367 BC (1043 BC - 187 AD). The Robinette(27477), Gairson(561441) and McKibbin(N15419) families split off here and have 22476838/FGC10241 but do not have R-L493. The Robinette family has 12 new unique SNP's and the Gairson family has 17 new unique SNP's created after splitting off from Nichols/Hallatt/Burgess/Picton. The SNP 22476838/FGC10241 occurred before the SNP L493 was created because we know Robinette(27477) and Gairson(561441) have 22476838/FGC10241. It is known that the Picton Family has SNP's R-L45, R-L477 and L493. To view L45 SNP's in the R-U106 STR Listings, click on STR Listings, then go to the bottom of the page, select page 3 and top of page 4, go down to R-L48, go down to R-L47 and then continue on down to R-L493. This STR Listing currently shows about 33 people who are L45 which includes those who are L493. The 33 people all list there ancestor origin as either from England, Scotland, Ireland, unknown or Wales except one person who has a German origin. Could with so many United Kingdom origins listed, be an indication that the L45 and L493 origin be in the United Kingdom back about 2000 years ago? It is estimated that the R-L45 age is 367 BC (1043 BC - 187 AD) and R-L493 age is 110 AD (466 BC - 583 AD) with a 95% confidence. Could the lack of more than one person from main land Europe be an indication that the L45 and L493 ancestor immigration occurred about 2000 years ago from Germany? Maybe they immigrated to the UK as part of the Roman Army or even helped build Hadrian's Wall?
YDNA Haplogroup is R-L477 and R-L493 age 110 AD (466 BC - 583 AD) has another name from ISOGG called R1b1a2a1a1c2b1a1a1a. R-L493 is found mostly in the United Kingdom with the Picton family being the only one from Wales. The YDNA Haplogroup tree at the time of the Nichols/Hallatt/Burgess/Picton split has an age estimated at about 1,800 years *YBP. It contained known YDNA Haplogroup SNP's unique to all the Nichols/Hallatt/Picton families. These SNP's formed after the L46 SNP started and before the Nichols/Hallatt/Burgess/Picton split which are 2867288/L477, 7244073/FGC13661, 8638850.CT.C, 10004175/FGC10248, 14535289/S1924, 15116138/L45/S353, 15701859/L164/S502, 15800326/L493, 22476838/FGC10241, and 23405659/CTS11988. To view common L477 and L493 SNP's in the R-U106 STR Listings, click on STR Listings, then go to the bottom of the page, select page 3 and top of page 4, go down to R-L48, go down to R-L47 and then continue on down to R-L493 and R-L477. We do not know the name of this Try/Clark/Nichols/Hallatt/Burgess/Picton common ancestor except we can estimate by DNA mutation rate about when he lived. The Big Y report shows at least eight different ancestor paths that split off below R-L493 and they are YDNA Haplogroups R-L493; R-A14298/15724748(Try) and (Clark); R-FGC10248 and R-L292(Venter); R-FGC10248 and R-FGC30616(Nichols/Hallatt); and R-FGC10248 and R-FGC10249(Andersson), (Burgess) and (Picton). There common ancestor would be R-L493. R-L493 (Turner), (Try) and(Clark) have R-L493 and 7244073/FGC13661 but does not have 10004175/FGC10248 which means they split off separately after R-L493.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-A14298/15724748 age 707 AD ( 146 AD BC - 1180 AD) after SNP R-L493 are the Try and Clark families.
YDNA Haplogroup is FGC10248 age 235 AD (285 BC - 678 AD) after SNP R-L493. The Forrest-227594 family is shown having R-L493. Also, the YSEQ company shows the Forrest family having 10004175/FGC10248. This means the Forrest family split after R-L493 and 10004175/FGC10248 was created and before the above Nichols/Hallatt/Burgess/Picton/Venter families came into being. The Nichols/Hallatt/Burgess/Picton/Venter families all have the SNP 10004175/FGC10248. The R-L493 tree up to my Picton branch based the on Big Y test from FTDNA would be Turner, Try and Clark families branch, Forrest branch, Venter branch, Nicholls/Hallatt branch, Burgess branch, Dean A. Picton branch and Owen Picton branch. This is how I view it and depends on who you are making the last branch. I placed the Andersson, Burgess and Picton families next to each other on the tree because the Andersson, Burgess and Picton families have SNP 14253518/FGC10249 and the rest do not.
A YDNA Haplogroup unique SNP name R-L292 is for the Venter(109845) Family right after SNP 10004175/FGC10248.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-FGC30616/BY9033/7137550 with age 1323 AD (785 AD - 1688 AD) for the Nichols/Hallatt families right after SNP 1004175/FGC10248. The SNP's unique to the Nichols/Hallatt families split are FGC30616, lFGC30618, FGC30619, FGC30623, FGC30625, FGC30626, FGC30627, and FGC30629. The Nichols/Hallatt families do not have SNP 14253518/(FGC10249) which the Burgress/Picton families have. The ages are calculated for R-U106 down to and including R-FGC30616 on the Raymond Wing's Complete Tree. The age for R-FCG30616 is right after R-L493 on the tree. Note: On the ISOGG Tree the SNP R-L493 has an ISOGG name of R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b1a1a1a. Just below R-L493 there are 7 or 8 unique SNP's listed starting with FGC30616 above and having an ISOGG name of R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b1a1a1a1.
YDNA Haplogroup is R-FGC10249 with age 392 AD (026 BC - 828 AD) for the Andersson/Burgress/Picton families right after SNP 10004175/FGC10248 The Andersson/Burgess/Picton families all have SNP 14253518/(FGC10249) unique to them which the SNP R-FGC30616 Nichols/Hallatt families do not have. So the Andersson famly(family location from Sweden), Burgess family(family location from England) and Picton family(family location from Wales) all split off later and are more closely related with there common ancestor living about 478 AD when R-FGC10249 occured. The Andersson family has about 12 additional unique SNP's, Picton and Burgess families do not have. The Burgess family has about 19 additional unique SNP's starting with 2980820.T.C, which the Andersson and Picton family do not have. The Picton families has about 9 unique SNP's which both the Owen Picton and Dean A. Picton families both have plus Owen Picton has 2 more additional unique SNP's which Dean A. Picton does not have for a total of 11 SNP's which the Andersson and Burgess family do not have. The Owen Picton family tree line can be traced back to about 1250 AD in Wales. So the Andersson/Burgess/Picton ancestors in the time frame between 478 AD and 1250 AD were living where and doing what?
A YDNA Haplogroup unique SNP name FGC10247 age 1454 AD (978 AD - 1762 AD) is for both the Picton families right after FGC10249 which is then right after L493. There are 9 unique SNP's after Nichols/Hallatt/Burgess/Picton split which are common to both Owen Picton and Dean A. Picton. The Picton families uniquely known 9 SNP's are 8519194/(FGC10247), 8801380.AG.A, 15353475/(FGC10252), 15784769/(FGC10253), 17881502/(FGC10256), 22440176/(FGC10263), 23410034/(FGC10266) and 23472658/(FGC10267). These are listed on the Family Tree DNA under the Big Y Matching report. The other Picton families who we know are related, most likely could have all of these unique YDNA Haplogroups depending when our common ancestor split may have happen. It could have happen up to 600 or more years ago and before some of Picton YDNA haplogroups originated. These other Picton families most likely would have originated there own new unique SNP's after the common Picton ancestor split.
It has been estimated that Owen Picton (myself), Dean Picton and other Picton's whose ancestors came from Pembrokeshire, Wales share a common ancestor in a Jenkin Picton, who lived around 1434. There is an unbroken family tree paper trail for Owen Picton, but Dean’s family tree connection is based on a best assessment of current evidence but has no confirmed paper trail before 1780. Owen Picton’s line has extensive documentation in terms of Wills, Administrations, and Manorial Deeds and Documents and it is said making any connection for most other Picton lines after 1500 pretty unlikely.
YDNA Haplogroups for the Owen Picton family have 2 additional unique SNP's by Big Y Haploogroup file 17150591/(FGC10255) and 18073982/(FGC10258) occurring (or three additional unique SNP's 13816165, 15038711 and 15962102 are shown by Big Y of FTDNA occurring) which do not show up for Dean Picton on the Family Tree DNA under the Big Y Matching report. They most likely originated after the Owen Picton family and Dean A. Picton family split. So the Dean A. Picton family does not have them or the Family Tree DNA test did not pick them up. Other Picton families could have these 2 unique SNP's depending on when our common ancestor lived. Owen Picton does have the above 9 common SNP's 8519194/(FGC10247), BY41116/(8801380.AG.A?), 15353475/(FGC10252), 15784769/(FGC10253), 16132308.TGATA.T, 17881502/(FGC10256), 22440176/(FGC10263), 23410034/(FGC10266) and 23472658/(FGC10267).
YDNA Haplogroups for the Dean A. Picton family also do have the 9 Picton family SNP's listed above that are common to both and they occurred before the Owen Picton family and Dean A. Picton ancestor split, so the Dean A.Picton family has them. These 9 common SNP's are 8519194/(FGC10247), BY41116/(8801380.AG.A?), 15353475/(FGC10252), 15784769/(FGC10253), 16132308.TGATA.T, 17881502/(FGC10256), 22440176/(FGC10263), 23410034/(FGC10266) and 23472658/(FGC10267). Dean A. Picton would also have new unique SNP's such as 14609823, 19228910, 22548458, 2885274, and 6921836 occurring within his Dean A. Picton family after the split which the Owen Picton family does not have.
R-L493 SNP Family Tree - plus and additional L493 view at L???
Starting at R-U106 a little ways before R-L493
Based on a report at FTDNA under Big Y matches for Owen Picton
Big Y ???.csv file at R1b1c_U106-S21_Haplogroup (am having trouble locating)
Ages based on calculations by Iain McDonald on 05/29/2018
Showing the sequence how SNP's formed and when branching occurred.
Note: When a SNP comes into being, everyone below and following has that new SNP
Plus based on a view how SNP's are divided up by individual under the L493 SNP in the R-U106 STR Listings, click on STR Listings, then go to the page selection, select about page 5, (or about row number 2438) go down to R-L48, go down to R-L47 and then continue on down to R-L493 and R-L477. This shows how people with common ancestors to me are divided up under the L493 SNP such as Try/Clark/Nichols/Hallatt/Burgess/Picton common ancestors. At this time, in this report, there are 55 people who have SNP L45 with a total report of about an estimated 5500 people or just 1 percent of the report have L45.
R-U106 estimated age 3022 BC (3699 BC - 2465 BC)
R-Z381 estimated age 2964 BC (3589 BC - 2432 BC)
R-Z301 estimated age 2752 BC (3362 BC - 2211 BC)
R-L48 estimated age 2598 BC (3181 BC - 2080 BC)
R-L47 estimated age 2283 BC (2929 BC - 1673 BC)
R-L44 estimated age 1935 BC (2631 BC - 1279 BC),
R-L163 estimated age 1692 BC (2368 BC - 1076 BC)
R-L46 estimated age 1415 BC (2120 BC - 742 BC) - Durr-108880 family (Germany)
R-L45 estimated age 367 BC (1043 BC - 187 AD) R-L164, R-FGC10241/22476838, CTS11988, CTS7848, FGC10242, FGC10244, FGC83477, L237, S1920, S192 and S1938
R-FT209509, FT209276 Morgan-B447857 family
R-S1936 age 151 AD (514 AD - 737 AD)
R-S1936 Robinette-27477 family (location London, England)
R-S1936 Bye family
R-CTS1863/BY16524 age 1337 AD (884 AD - 1646 AD)
R-CTS1863/BY16524 McKibbin-N15419 family (location Ireland),
R-CTS1863/BY16524 Megibben-318372 family
R-CTS1863/BY16524 Pocock-456028 family
Hunnicutt-389585 family (location England)
R-BY40273 Taylor-183263 family
R-BY40267 Wheeler-561441 family
R-L493/15800326 age 110 AD (466 BC - 583 AD), R-L477/2867288, R-FGC13661/7244073, R-8638850
If you are R-L493, then you are also R-L45
R-BY16534/16523211, R-A14299/7454777 and FT3283
R-A14298/15724748 age 707 AD (146 AD - 1180 AD)
Try-490251 family - (England)
R-BY62942, BY219340 and BY122603
Gordon-105253 family (location Scotland)
Gordon-N70046 family (location Scotland)
Gordon-N116656 family (location Scotland)
R-BY105605, BY67146, BY86709, BY75503, BY151267, BY155323, and BY115320
Thomas(Turner)-N39678 family (location England)
R-FGC10248/10004175 age 235 AD (285 BC - 678 AD)
R-L292 - Robert Venter-109845 family (location England)
R-FGC30627 Forrest-227594 family (location Scotland)
R-FGC30616/(FGC30619?)/BY9033/7137550 age 1323 AD (785 AD - 1688 AD),
FGC30618, FGC30619, FGC30623, FGC30625, FGC30626, FGC30627, an FGC30629
Nicholls-369019 families - (location England)
Hallatt-131142 families - (location UK)
Isaak Hallett(Snow)-B238754 families - (location England)
R-FGC10249/14253518 age 392 AD (102 BC - 828 AD) FGC10251/14759054
Christopher Venter Family
Andersson(Lindqvist)-628341 family (location Sweden)
Croft-464544 family (location England)
Croft-631246 family (location England)
Burgress-35011 family (location England)
Richards-88228 family (location England)
R-FGC10247/8519194 age 1454 AD (978 AD - 1762 AD), BY41116/28812842(8801380.AG.A?)
Mr. Kim Sinclair Family (in FTDNA Family Finder. Lives in New Zealand-ancestors from Scotland
R-FGC10252/15353475, FGC10245/6053650, FGC10246, 15784769/(FGC10253),
17881502/(FGC10256), FGC10259, FGC10260, 22440176/(FGC10263), FGC10264,
23410034/(FGC10266), 23472658/(FGC10267), FGC10268, and FGC23129/23049321
(Picton of Whitechurch)Owen Picton-N20541 family (Location Wales)-
For Owen Picton-N20541 and R-FGC23122 families- guess common ancestor lived
about 1454 AD
* YBP stands for "Years Before Present" and using the starting year of present to be the year 1950 AD.
** Two parallel SNP's U106+ and P312+ descendant from a common ancestor at about the same time between about 2500 BC to 2900 BC.
The estimated age of the Nichols/Hallatt/Picton oldest splitting is calculated by me to be about 1200 to 1560 years YBP by using the starting year of present to be the year 1950 and counting back about 135 years for each SNP. This 1200 to 1560 year YBP estimate may be off 300 to 400 years either way.
The only ancient U106+ found so far was from a Swedish Battle-Axe grave - possibly a sub-branch of the Corded Ware culture - in Lilla Beddinge, Sweden, dating to 2275-2032 BC.
The earliest ancient P312+ samples found so far were from Bell Beaker graves in Quedlinburg,Germany, dating to between 2296-2206 BC.
YDNA Haplogroup R1b Overview. Additionally: The above YDNA Haplogroup R1b has a Wikipedia write up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b that contains a chart called "Evolutionary tree of human Y-chromosome DNA (Y-DNA) haplogroups" at the end just before the references. One can go to most of the various YDNA Haplogroup write ups above R1b in the Tree by clicking on that YDNA Haplogroup within this chart. This may also provide projected ages when each YDNA Haplogroup began.
The age calculations for R1b and above came from Wikipedia Haplogroup listings. I used age calculations for haplogroups between R1b to R-L493 made by the R1b-U106 Y-DNA Haplogroup website people Raymond Wing's Complete Tree making these calculations.
Finally, I would like to know the physical beginning locations where U106 became Z381 became Z301 became L48 became L47 became L44 became L46 became L45 became L477 and L493. Maybe a L477 clue is that the following families split off at various times after the R-L477 and R-L493 SNP's began.
Here is a list of 25 family surnames who are R-L493:
Andersson(Lindqvist)(628341), Angell(368552), Becker(25366), Browne(409300), Burgess(35011), Clark(B9236), Clarke(68995), Croft(464544), Forrest(227594), Franklin/Carter(N5900), Gordon(N116656), Hallatt(131142), Hallett/Snow(B238754), Johnson(863224), Mansure(875575) Nichols(369019), Reader(153980), Richards(88228), Try(490251), Turner/Thomas(N39678), Vinter(109845), Ward(328873), Warman(289913) White(298100), Picton(113151) and Owen Picton(N20541). We are all related and have a common R-L493 ancestor who lived about 110 AD (466 BC - 583 AD).
My attempt to tie all SNP L493 names togethRichards (er resulted in my making a list of possible family origins of those who have SNP L493. Please let me know if you see changes or corrections. Do you see any possible pattern? More of these families than indicated my have there origin in Normandy.
Angell may be derived from an occupation name for someone who was a messenger of God.
Becker may mean one who lives by a brook.
Browne may be derived from the color brown.
Burgess may mean inhabitant of a fortified town.
Clark and Clarke my be derived from an occupation of clerk.
Croft may mean that the family lived in an area of arable land, at or near the farmers house.
Forrest may mean one who lives in a forrest.
Franklin/Carter may mean the rank of a person maybe meaning gentleman.
Gordon may be Norman and may be derived from a place called Gordon meaning spacious town.
Nichols may be Norman and may be derived from a meaning to conquer people.
Picton origin believed immigrate to Wales. Pic may be derived from a name, location or word for fish. The ton of Picton may derive from a word for town.
Reader may mean one whose occupation is a thatcher or one who thatches with reed.
Try may be of a name similar to Try for a pre-existing name for the town or farmstead.
Turner may be the occupation of one who makes objects from wood by turning on a lathe.
Vinter origin is unknown.
Ward family came from Normandy and the name derived from ward meaning guardian or watchman.
White family may have come from the Le Blancs family name in Normandy.
The earliest known origin of each of these families are mostly in the United Kingdom. The experts currently say that British Y-DNA testers are much greater represented than the rest of Europe by a factor of about 10 to 1. Maybe this means the R-L493 origin is either English, Norman, Flemish or Viking.
Above L493 Chart using Family Tree DNA showing people with SNPs Z381>Z301>L48>L47>L44>L163>L46>L525>L45+
SNP discussion on L48, L47, L44, L46, L525, L45, and L493 or L477.
I, Owen Picton tests positive for the SNP’s L48, L47, L44, L46, L525, L45, and L493 or L477. The SNP L47 is a subclade to L48, L44 is a subclade to L47 and L46 is a subclade of L44 and so on down to the end. These SNP levels are similar to our surnames before surnames existed. Where were my male ancestors living at each of these different SNP levels? So far, besides myself, only about five other individuals, including Craig Venter have tested positive for all these SNPs down through all levels to SNP L493 or L477. Craig Venter goes one level lower to L292 and his group are generally regarded as playing a major role in the sequencing of the human genome (HUGO).
There is a greater GD (genetic distance) between us and also between those who are only L47+. This may mean that the founders for these SNP;s L48+ L47+ L44+ and L46+ all happen to live within a fairly short period of time to each other.
The GD from me for 3 of the L46+ people are:
- ysearch 3k37y has GD 20 out of 72 markers
- ysearch 6TYRN has GD 5 out of 25 markers
- ysearch EM5R3 has GD 16 out of 67 markers
Others from me who are only L47+:
- ysearch 28uta has GD 28 out of 67 markers
- ysearch 38jnr has 18 out of 67 markers
- ysearch ED28N has GD 24 out of 67 markers
- ysearch V2JBN has GD 24 out of 67 markers
To show how slow GD mutates from myself:
Another Picton (Dean A. Picton) has a GD of 6 out of 67 STR markers when tested at FTDNA. We match on 41 out of 43 markers when tested at DNA Heritage. An estimate based on paper documentation is that our common ancestor could be Jenkin Picton of Newport, Pembrokeshire, who lived almost 600 years ago in the early to mid-1400s. Another Picton family, who we can show by an established paper trail had a common ancestor with myself about 260 years ago has a match of 42 out of 43 markers when tested at DNA Heritage. This shows how slowly recent genetic changes have occurred, although this is a function of the markers selected.
Thus Dean Picton and myself have a GD of 5 when tested on the FTDNA 1-37 STR panel of markers and this only increases to 6 when markers 38-67 are added in. Markers with a high level of mutation rates include: DYS439, DYS464c, GATA A10, DYS576, CDYa and CDYb.
DNA markers of the Picton family
A comment about markers that are "DNA markers of the Picton family". Most or all Pictons share these DNA markers. These markers are separating the Picton family from others in this world. This genetic signature is like our surname.
Only the Picton family has the following criteria:
Must be L493+ or L477+ and have STR's:
No one else meets this criteria.
Markers of Owen Picton with some difference to other Picton's include:
We sometimes differ on a number of other markers within the Picton family group but we all have L493.
Unique haplogroups are like a name which would tie you to a family before the time surnames became standardized. My own family can be traced back to a Philip Picton who lived around 1260 at Newport, Pembrokeshire, Wales. I have about 10 unique new SNP's which another L493 person named Hallatt does not have. It is estimated these unique SNP's occur about every 100 to 150 years. Other people with the last name Picton should also have some of these 10 unique new SNP's but those that are not in common should indicate when our common ancestor lived. There are L493 common ancestors back in an estimated time frame of about 1400 years ago in Continental Europe where the L493 founder lived (i.e. 600 A.D.). These few other L493 people with a different surname would be descendants from the same L493 common ancestor as the Picton's. Finally, if you are close to my STR pattern then I would encourage you to get a deep clade test performed to aid in determining the origin of the L48, L47, L44, L46, L45 and L493 founders.
New tests continue to be developed and used on the Picton Y-DNA
Our objective is to find new SNP's that may lie below or between our known SNP's markers. This would help segregate these markers even further. It will also be interesting to see how the Picton family compares to Craig Venter (who has had his entire DNA genome sequenced and is available online). We could even find a private Picton family SNP. We should know a lot more when various results become available on the various members of the R-L493 Haplogroup. We hope it will give when a SNP occurred, where they were living and what group of people they were with.
Picton Y DNA Research STR Results
A 67 Marker Genetic Sequence result for Owen Samuel Picton from Family Tree DNA using the DNA sample taken for the National Geographic Genographic Project in about 2006.
In addition, a 111 Marker result and GENO 2.0 test from National Geographic Genographic was done in 2013
PANEL 1 (1-12)
DYS393: 13; DYS390: 23; DYS19: 14; DYS391: 10; DYS385a: 11; DYS385b: 13; DYS426: 12; DYS388: 12; DYS439: 13; DYS389-1: 13; DYS392: 13; DYS389-2: 29
PANEL 2 (13-25)
DYS458: 17; DYS459a: 9; DYS459b: 10; DYS455: 11; DYS454: 11; DYS447: 25; DYS437: 15; DYS448: 19; DYS449: 30; DYS464a: 15; DYS464b: 15; DYS464c: 17; DYS464d: 17
PANEL 3 (26-37)
DYS460: 11; DYSGATA H4: 11; DYSYCA II a: 21; DYSYCA II b: 23; DYS456: 15; DYS607: 15; DYS576: 18; DYS570: 17; DYSCDY a: 37; DYSCDY b: 40; DYS442: 13; DYS438: 12
PANEL 4 (38 - 47)
DYS531: 12; DYS578: 9; DYS395S1a: 16; DYS395S1b: 16; DYS590: 8; DYS537: 11; DYS641: 10; DYS472: 8; DYS406S1: 9; DYS511: 10
PANEL 4 (48 - 60)
DYS425: 12; DYS413a: 23; DYS413b: 23; DYS557: 16; DYS594: 10; DYS436: 12; DYS490: 12; DYS534: 15; DYS450: 8; DYS444: 12; DYS481: 21; DYS520: 20; DYS446: 13
PANEL 4 (61 - 67)
DYS617: 12; DYS568: 11; DYS487: 13; DYS572: 11; DYS640: 11; DYS492: 13; DYS565: 12
A 43 Marker Genetic Sequence result for Owen Samuel Picton from DNA Heritage includes some of the above marker results plus markers below:
Additional DNA Heritage Haplotype details:
DYS425: 12; DYS461: 12; DYS462: 11; DYSA10: 15; DYS635: 23; DYS1B07: 1; DYS441: 15; DYS444: 12; DYS445: 12; DYS446: 13; DYS452: 30; DYS463: 24
I notice that the value for marker DYS442 is shown by DNA Heritage as 18 and by Family Tree DNA as 13. I talked to Family Tree DNA and they said they report the value as 5 less than DNA Heritage.
DNA Heritage records have been given to Family Tree DNA (FTDNA)
GATA-H4/TAGA-H4 - This marker is also called TAGA-H4 by DNA Heritage, Relative Genetics, and NIST, and called GATA-H4 by FTDNA. When the marker is reported as GATA-H4, its value is one less than when it is reported as TAGA-H4. Y-Search uses GATA-H4 and this will be used by the haplogroup predictor program also. If you have a value for TAGA-H4, then subtract one from the value before entering it in the Y-Search program. The reverse is true for "ybase" searches.
The above DYS389-2: is 29 by DNA Heritage but is 16 by the Genographic Project at National Geographic because for all DNA sites one must add ones results for 389-2 and 389-1 together and enter this as the total value for 389-2 which would be 29 for DYS389-2 except for the Genographic Project where DYS389-2 remains 16.
Then go down and select "Y-Search"
Then select "Search for genetic matches"
Then for my "Enter User ID" enter "HX838"
Then Click on "Search" and enter in how you want the search.
The Haplogroup is R1b
A 12 Marker Genetic Sequence result for Owen Samuel Picton from Genographic Project at National Geographic
Haplogroup: R1b (M343)
My 12 Marker STRs
What a 12 Marker exact match result means:
The 12 Marker result from the Y-chromosome test is called a Haplotype, and can help determine how common is ones DNA sample.
A 12 Marker exact match result to someone with the SAME surname, means there is a high probability that you are related.
The above DYS389-2: was 16 by the Genographic Project at National Geographic but when comparing to other DNA sites one must add ones results for 389-2 and 389-1 together and enter the total value for 389-2 which would be 29 for DYS389-2 when comparing to other sites. How to Interpret My Results
Above are results from the laboratory analysis of my Y-chromosome. My DNA was analyzed for Short Tandem Repeats (STRs), which are repeating segments of my genome that have a high mutation rate. The location on the Y chromosome of each of these markers is depicted in the image, with the number of repeats for each of your STRs presented to the right of the marker. For example, DYS19 is a repeat of TAGA, so if your DNA repeated that sequence 12 times at that location, it would appear: DYS19 12. Studying the combination of these STR lengths in your Y Chromosome allows researchers to place you in a haplogroup, which reveals the complex migratory journeys of your ancestors. Y-SNP: In the event that the analysis of your STRs was inconclusive, your Y chromosome was also tested for the presence of an informative Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP). These are mutational changes in a single nucleotide base, and allow researchers to definitively place you in a genetic haplogroup.
One is most likely "NOT recently related" on a 12 marker exact match result to someone else who does not have the same surname. The term "NOT recently related", may mean a time frame between 1000 to 2000 years ago or more.
The likelihood that we are related is much greater on a 43 marker match than on a 12 marker match, when checking matches on 12, 25, 37 or 43 markers.
Dr. Luigi Lucca Cavalli-Sforza, Professor Emeritus, Stanford University, in his book: The Great Human Diasporas: The History of Diversity and Evolutions says that the total population of Europe was 60,000 people at the end of the last Ice Age, about 10,000 years ago. Europe now has a population of 300 million people.
So sometimes European people alive today will have a 12 marker match with other Europeans from before the time that our ancestors began using surnames. Matching someone with a different surname most likely means the connection is distant rather then recent.
Picton Family STR test results for those individuals with the surname Picton
Not quite so simple. Mainly because most of our testing has been done with DNA Heritage out to 43 markers. Nine of these markers do not overlap with FTDNA 1-37 markers.
We have 11 individuals to date in the database, including Owen Picton, who are clearly related on the basis of the DNA results. We have two testers also who should be related (both families from Pembrokeshire) - but are clearly NPEs (Non-Paternity Events), unfortunately - and 3 Picton samples which clearly represent a totally different origin of the surname; perhaps not too surprising given their locations, all of which are non-Welsh. The initial aim should be to recruit and test at least one Picton candidate in each branch of every Welsh Picton family, and longer-term ideally two candidates so that the genetic signature of that branch can be defined relatively unambiguously.
We have marker DYS385b = 13 across all 11 people. Three of these, including Owen, have a paper trail back to 1260 or thereabouts - but in fact descend from a common ancestor who lived from 1713/4 to about 1793. I can find no evidence from paper records for an earlier male branch point on this line going backwards, with a male line that survives down to the present day, until you get to the 1400s and Jenkin Picton. There is one slight possibility, but that is all. The fate of all other male branches is to die out.
All the rest of the Pictons of Pembrokeshire come from branches where it is difficult to get back on paper before about 1750, principally because of the poor survival of parish registers and transcripts in Wales. These results represent four separate lines at present, already tested (Freystrop/Burton; Martletwy; Camrose; Haroldston West) and with another four lines feasible (Carew; Cosheston; Haverfordwest; Llandisilio). The line which contains Sir Thomas Picton also remains theoretically possible, but exceptionally difficult to achieve in practice. Two of these four other lines have produced the NPE events described earlier when tested. So we are trying to work round that by finding alternative branches and candidates from the NPE line. This is a general process used in genetic genealogy called triangulation on a selected ancestor by following different male pathways to potential DNA candidates living today. One line has even taken the best part of 3 years to locate a single DNA candidate. That individual was in Washington State, USA, and then he turned out to be a NPE. The other NPE line, frustratingly, is my own Picton line (Picton of Cosheston), as an Elizabeth Picton (1805-1882) was my g-g-grandmother. Again it has taken me >2 years to locate an alternative candidate.
Owen S. Picton has DYS439 = 13; but this marker is quite variable within the whole group. One of the other two testers who share a common ancestor with Owen in the eighteenth century has 439 = 14 and the other is 13 as well. Most of the other Picton families have 439 = 12, but one has 439 = 13 also, and we have a paper trail connecting him to one of the 439 = 12 results. Until this result came in very recently, I used to think that 439 = 13 or higher was specific to Owen's branch, but this idea now has to be revised. All this just shows that DYS439 is is a very fast mutating marker, in our family at least.
YCAIIa = 21 is common across all 11 samples tested to date.
CDYb = 40 is an FTDNA-specific marker. Our other Picton candidate, has CDYb = 39.
DYS537 = 11 is an FTDNA-specific marker. Again our other candidate, has 537 = 10.
DYS481 = 21 is an FTDNA-specific marker, common to both Owen Picton and other Picton.
Other markers where the Picton of Whitechurch line and other Picton lines differ, plus others, not discussed above are:
DYS 388 - we have three samples where this is 13 the other eight are 12.
DYS 444 - we have one sample out of eleven where this is 13, all the rest are 12.
DYS 461 - we have one sample out of eleven where this 13, all the rest are 12.
DYS464c - we have nine samples with 17, one with 16 and one with 15.
All other DYS 464 markers (a, b, d) are the same across all 11 samples.
GATA A10 we have Owen's family line of three samples with 15, all other samples are 14. This is now the only marker which is specific to Owen's branch of the surname.
In addition to CDYb, above, we have DYS576 differing by one between Owen (18) and other Picton (19) and also CDYa - which is 37 for Owen and 36 for other Picton.
The more markers one tests at FTDNA, the better the results. Testing 67 markers is better than 37 markers and 111 markers is better than 67 markers. Specifically, it is better to test the fast mutating markers DYS570, DYS576, CDYa and CDYb across all samples, to provide extra discriminating power between branches of the surname. Additional FTDNA testing allows us to maintain the integrity of our database but maximise the potential for assessing branching points between families, with the goal of being able to extrapolate the order in which the STR changes occurred down the Picton family tree and hence determine the branch-point for each line.
Estimated Picton Y-DNA Past History
The Picton family tests positive for the SNP's U106/S21+, L48+, L47+, L44+, L163, L46+, L45+, L164, L237, L477, L493 and L525+. There may be more as more testing is done.
It has been established that the largest haplogroup among men of European ancestry is R1b-M269. The subclade called U106/S21+ may represents 25% of the R1b-M269 male population. It is estimated that the first U106/S21+ man lived 3,000 to 7,000 years ago. Some think the first U106 man lived somewhere in the lower part of Sweden. There is much debate about all this.
The Picton Family is part of this U106/S21+ subclade. My ancestors have been traced back to Philip Picton born about the year 1260. All my male ancestors back and including Philip Picton have to be Haplogroup U106 and have similar SNP markers. All different Picton lines DNA tested thus far from Pembrokeshire, Wales show we are related and most likely share the same ancestor line descending from Philip Picton. The problem is finding where the different lines branched off my Picton line. Very few U106 famlies can trace there ancestors back to the year 1240. This is what makes the Picton Family Tree back to the year 1240 so important for doing research on the origins of U106.
The following information was displayed at Picton Castle, Pembrokeshire, Wales and is the earliest known reference of my name Picton:
Henry I (of England) settled a large force of Flemings, who had been displaced from Flanders by inundations of the sea. In the centref of Rhos and the western half of Daugleddau.
Wizo, the Flemish warlord seized the latter area, built a motte and bailey castle at Wiston (Wizo’s ton or settlement) about 3 miles NNE of Picton, and this became his base for the subjection of the area. At first his knights would have lived in his household at Wiston, but after the pacification of the district they were planted on estates for FEES, one of which was Picton. The original earth work castle of Picton stands a few hundred yards East of the present castle entrance."
Could Wizo the Fleming or some of those with him be of the YDNA Haplogroup R1b-U106/S21+? Was the ancestor of Philip Picton be with this group coming from Flanders?
A very early Welsh family tree said the ancestor of Philip Picton was a foreigner. Where did the the first Picton in Pembrokeshire, Wales come from? Did he come from Flanders, Normandy, or France? It is hoped that with additional DNA testing of individuals from these locations that a match can be found. It is surprising that a close match with anyone including anyone in Wales has not been found except those with the last name of Picton.
Current projected journey for the ancestors of Owen Picton
24,000-Year-Old Body Shows Kinship to Europeans and American Indians - Published by Roberta Estes
The article first gives information on the female mitochonrial DNA for the haplogroup that the boy has.
The article then also talks about the 24,000 year old male Y DNA Chromosome being an ancestor to haplogroup R which the Picton family belongs too. Could the ancestor to haplogroup R have spread out of India to both North to Siberia 24,000 years ago and also West to Europe by 5,000 years ago? Some believe that the ancestor to haplogroup R was in Malaysia 39,000 years ago, then traveled to India, then West to Europe. Languages in Europe are Indo-European and are believed to have come out of India. The 24,000 year old grave gives a hint where our Picton ancestors were nearly 24,000 years ago. Y DNA testing of graves in Europe has not found any males with Y DNA Chromosome haplogroup R older than 5,000. Those older than 5,000 years are something other than haplogroup R. Europe now has a male population that is about 30% to 40% haplogroup R. What happen to make all these men not haplogroup R in Europe disappear 5,000 years ago?
A more recent alternate theory is that the Indo-European people came from a European ghost population called ANE, (Ancient Northern Europeans) who many think came from a tribe of people called the Yamnaya Tribe that left there homeland about 8,000 years ago. The Yamnaya Tribe came from the Black Sea (Crimea, Ukraine area) with some going East into India and others going West to European. A Dr Hammer reported testing SNP samples. They now have 160 ancient YDNA samples (from Europe to the steppes of Russia) using atDNA in 2015 vs 74 last year which can be tested for SNP R1b. R1b is traced to ANE via a mass migration from this steppes of Russia in the Bronze Age. Several date this Yamnaya movement into Europe at 4,500 years ago. All of the Yamnaya samples are R1b but there were no R1b in the Yamnaya during the Ice Age. The R1b derives from East Asian group P. The East Asian group had to mix with the Yamnaya Tribe before they entered Europe so that the Yamnaya Tribe can bring R1b into Europe. R1b is the ancestor to the Y-DNA R-L477 Picton surname. Europe was settled by three groups which are:
WHG = Western Hunter Gatherers = more in Northern Europe
EEF = Early European Farmers = more in Southern Europe
ANE = Ancient North Eurasian, perhaps originally from Siberia by the Yamnaya Tribe
The following current projections were taken from information by Charles Moore
The Haplogroup R that made it to Europe divided with R1b being a major part that made it to Europe. R1b references have previously typically begun with R1b-M269. However, as a result of the recent discovery of its immediate subclade R1b-L23, and L23's subclade L51, and L51's subclade L11 (the parent of U106 and P312), it has become reasonably clear, despite somewhat smallish numbers, that M269 and its immediate subclade L23, both characterized by the ancestral DYS STR 393=12, originated not far from the origin of R1b itself, somewhere near the Caspian Sea.
They descend from groups on the North side of the Black Sea, who may have moved west anywhere between the Danube on the South and the Baltic shore on the North. Some L23s made their way into Europe naturally, especially into Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and notably, southern Italy.
Nevertheless, it now seems clear that the L23 subclade L51 is the start of a virtually uniquely European form of R1b, which probably originated somewhere not far from Istanbul, and which is also conveniently characterized by the extremely highly correlating change to 393=13.
Consequently, with due respect to the small numbers of L23s in Europe, we can now begin European originated R1b subclades with L51 and its 393=13 count.
Many believe that the L51 subclade L11 must have split into two groups, southeast of the Alps, taking various rivers in different directions. The one for P312 and its subclades and family SNPS comes first, followed by the one for our own U106.
The group that became P312 took the southern route south of the Alps, and somewhere near the Riviera, P312 formed and flourished, and populated Spain, France, Britain, and Ireland.
Meanwhile, the group that became U106 moved north of the Alps and then west on the Danube towards the Rhine. Somehow the Picton family (who are U106) ended up in Wales
Current projected journey DATES for the ancestors of Owen Picton
Looking at it in reverse with estimated time frames from information by Charles Moore.
Realize that the following are only estimates based on the mutation rates of the STR;s after a SNP was created.
The MRCA (most recent common ancestor) of the L45+ is about 131 AD.
The MRCA of the L44+ is about 1871 BC.
The MRCA of the L47+ is about 2347 BC.
The MRCA (most recent common ancestor) of the L48+ testers in the project is about 2849 BC, and I would suggest that this person most likely lived in or not too far from the Rhine valley.
The MRCA of the U106 project members lived about 3041 BC, perhaps not too far from the Danube. The Danube, running east, and the Rhine, running north, reach within 30 miles of one another north of western Switzerland.
The MRCA of U106 and P312, who would have been an L11, lived about 3041 BC, perhaps not too far from the lower Danube, or in the upper Balkans.
The MRCA of that group and the L11* group, before 3041 BC, perhaps in the Balkans.
The MRCA of the L11s and the L51* group, who would have been an L51, lived before 3041 BC, perhaps not too far from Istanbul.
The MRCA of the L51s and the L23* group, an L23, lived before 3041 BC in SW Asia, perhaps not far from the Caspian Sea.
Somewhat less clear is the MRCA of the L23s and the M269* group, an M269, who lived in that area before 3041 BC.
Discussion on U106 and P312
Taken from information by Charles Moore.
Since the recent discovery of the M269 SNP cascade running through L23 to L51 to L11, I think from a general European R1b standpoint, or at least from a P312 and U106 standpoint, it may make sense for most of us to start using L51 as a sort-of base point. This is the group that highly correlates with the change to 393=13, instead of the previous 12, which highly correlates with the L23s found much more in SW Asia, the Caucasus, and Russia, than in Central or Western Europe.
The L11*, L51*, and L23* testing groups are very small, so we have to be careful. Vince is working with these testers, so that is ideal. AS far as I know, L51 and L11 may be concentrated primarily in the Balkans. So certainly from a further migration into Europe standpoint, the lower Danube would be an obvious route, even though working upstream.
These dates and locations seem to make clear that old theories about the last ice age, the Iberian peninsula, and the Baltic, don't work well with the "big picture".
If we look at a good map of Europe in total, and we focus on Central Europe, the Balkans, the Danube, the Alps, and the Rhine, we can gain a good picture of our early L11 ancestors making their way through that central area about 1500 BC. Ultimately, the P312s would dominate Spain, France, Britain, and Ireland, while the smaller U106 would be more prevalent in the Netherlands, Germany, and Austria, with a bit less concentration in Britain, Denmark, Switzerland, and the Czech Republic, per the Myres study.
As always with genealogy, and genetic genealogy is not really too different in that regard, everyone is free to imagine their own theories in areas where we will perhaps never really know with a very high degree of certainty, what the facts really are.
I thought for a long time, and rarely said so, that the old dating estimates for our group were way too long into the past. Now I have become concerned that the current dating estimates are starting to look too short! Was our group really this late to arrive on the scene?
The below was the understanding in 2006 but there has been changes sense then
DNA Migration Research for Owen Samuel PICTON
copied from information produced by National Geographic
Migration map for the ancestors of Owen Samuel Picton over the last 50,000 years
The below was the understanding in 2006 but there has been changes sense then
Genetic History Journey for Owen Samuel Picton from Genographic Project at National Geographic
Your Y chromosome results identify you as a member of haplogroup R1b, a lineage defined by a genetic marker called M343. This haplogroup is the final destination of a genetic journey that began some 60,000 years ago with an ancient Y chromosome marker called M168.
The very widely dispersed M168 marker can be traced to a single individual"Eurasian Adam." This African man, who lived some 31,000 to 79,000 years ago, is the common ancestor of every non-African person living today. His descendants migrated out of Africa and became the only lineage to survive away from humanity's home continent.
Population growth during the Upper Paleolithic era may have spurred the M168 lineage to seek new hunting grounds for the plains animals crucial to their survival. A period of moist and favorable climate had expanded the ranges of such animals at this time, so these nomadic peoples may have simply followed their food source.
Improved tools and rudimentary art appeared during this same epoch, suggesting significant mental and behavioral changes. These shifts may have been spurred by a genetic mutation that gave "Eurasian Adam's" descendants a cognitive advantage over other contemporary, but now extinct, human lineages.
Some 90 to 95 percent of all non-Africans are descendants of the second great human migration out of Africa, which is defined by the marker M89.
M89 first appeared 45,000 years ago in Northern Africa or the Middle East. It arose on the original lineage (M168) of "Eurasian Adam," and defines a large inland migration of hunters who followed expanding grasslands and plentiful game to the Middle East.
Many people of this lineage remained in the Middle East, but others continued their movement and followed the grasslands through Iran to the vast steppes of Central Asia. Herds of buffalo, antelope, woolly mammoths, and other game probably enticed them to explore new grasslands.
With much of Earth's water frozen in massive ice sheets, the era's vast steppes stretched from eastern France to Korea. The grassland hunters of the M89 lineage traveled both east and west along this steppe "superhighway" and eventually peopled much of the continent.
A group of M89 descendants moved north from the Middle East to Anatolia and the Balkans, trading familiar grasslands for forests and high country. Though their numbers were likely small, genetic traces of their journey are still found today.
Some 40,000 years ago a man in Iran or southern Central Asia was born with a unique genetic marker known as M9, which marked a new lineage diverging from the M89 group. His descendants spent the next 30,000 years populating much of the planet.
Most residents of the Northern Hemisphere trace their roots to this unique individual, and carry his defining marker. Nearly all North Americans and East Asians have the M9 marker, as do most Europeans and many Indians. The haplogroup defined by M9, K, is known as the Eurasian Clan.
This large lineage dispersed gradually. Seasoned hunters followed the herds ever eastward, along a vast belt of Eurasian steppe, until the massive mountain ranges of south central Asia blocked their path.
The Hindu Kush, Tian Shan, and Himalaya, even more formidable during the era's ice age, divided eastward migrations. These migrations through the "Pamir Knot" region would subsequently become defined by additional genetic markers.
The marker M45 first appeared about 35,000 to 40,000 years ago in a man who became the common ancestor of most Europeans and nearly all Native Americans. This unique individual was part of the M9 lineage, which was moving to the north of the mountainous Hindu Kush and onto the game-rich steppes of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and southern Siberia.
The M45 lineage survived on these northern steppes even in the frigid Ice Age climate. While big game was plentiful, these resourceful hunters had to adapt their behavior to an increasingly hostile environment. They erected animal skin shelters and sewed weathertight clothing. They also refined the flint heads on their weapons to compensate for the scarcity of obsidian and other materials.
The intelligence that allowed this lineage to adapt and thrive in harsh conditions was critical to human survival in a region where no other hominids are known to have survived.
Members of haplogroup R are descendents of Europe's first large-scale human settlers. The lineage is defined by Y chromosome marker M173, which shows a westward journey of M45-carrying Central Asian steppe hunters.
The descendents of M173 arrived in Europe around 35,000 years ago and immediately began to make their own dramatic mark on the continent. Famous cave paintings, like those of Lascaux and Chauvet, signal the sudden arrival of humans with artistic skill. There are no artistic precedents or precursors to their appearance.
Soon after this lineage's arrival in Europe, the era of the Neandertals came to a close. Genetic evidence proves that these hominids were not human ancestors but an evolutionary dead end. Smarter, more resourceful human descendents of M173 likely outcompeted Neandertals for scarce Ice Age resources and thus heralded their demise.
The long journey of this lineage was further shaped by the preponderance of ice at this time. Humans were forced to southern refuges in Spain, Italy, and the Balkans. Years later, as the ice retreated, they moved north out of these isolated refuges and left an enduring, concentrated trail of the M173 marker in their wake.
Today, for example, the marker's frequency remains very high in northern France and the British Isleswhere it was carried by M173 descendents who had weathered the Ice Age in Spain.
Members of haplogroup R1b, defined by M343 are the direct descendents of Europe's first modern humansknown as the Cro-Magnon people.
Cro-Magnons arrived in Europe some 35,000 years ago, during a time when Neandertals still lived in the region. M343-carrying peoples made woven clothing and constructed huts to withstand the frigid climes of the Upper Paleolithic era. They used relatively advanced tools of stone, bone, and ivory. Jewelry, carvings, and intricate, colorful cave paintings bear witness to the Cro Magnons' surprisingly advanced culture during the last glacial age.
When the ice retreated genetically homogenous groups recolonized the north, where they are still found in high frequencies. Some 70 percent of men in southern England are R1b. In parts of Spain and Ireland that number exceeds 90 percent.
There are many sublineages within R1b that are yet to be defined. The Genographic Project hopes to bring future clarity to the disparate parts of this distinctive European lineage.
I submitted my DNA to the Genographic Project at National Geographic in December, 2005. They provided me with the above information and migration history of my ancestor origin for over the last 50,000 years.
Please click on above line if you wish to go to the Genographic Project website for DNA Research by National Geographic. Then select "Atlas of the Human Journey". Go to "Genetic Markers, select for my M343 and then travel back from there. You may also do other searching.
Picton Y DNA Information
Comments on James D. Watson and Craig Venter
The human genome sequence [HUGO = Human Genome Organisation] has resulted in the full DNA sequence for James D. Watson and recently for Craig Venter. It appears that they both have a Haplogroup assignment of R1b1a2a1a1 (also known as S21+) which is the same for the Picton family. Could it be that these two individuals and the Picton's have the same direct male line ancestor who has lived within the last 5000 years? I suggest that you do a google on R1b1a2a1a1 (R1b1b2a1a*) and Watson or Venter to see what you find. Craig Venter also tests positive for L48+, L47+, L44+, L46+, L525+, L45+ and R-L493 (same as myself) so he is now Haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1c2b1a1a1a.
Below Watson and Venter information taken from information by Charles Moore.
As many know, James Watson's and Craig Venter's entire 6 billion base pair human genomes were mapped several years ago, at something like a million dollars each. The 23 chromosomes have an average of about 260 million base pairs each. The Y chromosome has "only" about 57 million base pairs. Mitochondria has 16,000.
To confirm Watson's and Venter's status with regard to presently known Y SNPs, I consulted with published lists of their Y SNPs, which are much easier than looking at their published genomes.
James Watson is R1b-U106*.
He is positive for U106 and negative for all of its known published subclades, including U198, L1, P107, L5, L6, P89.2, L127, and L48. To be extra thorough, I also confirmed that he is negative for L48 subclades L47 and L148, and the U106 brother clade P312.
Watson has lots of otherwise unknown SNPs, many of which are probably ancestral of U106 and therefore not very meaningful to us. Presumably some day, someone will match him at a SNP that is descendant of U106, and he will no longer be U106*. Until then, he obviously remains of interest to everyone who is also U106*. To remind everyone, that term means positive for U106, but negative for all of its known subclades.
Craig Venter is R-L292, the last in the line of known descendant SNPs running in order descendantly from U106 via L48, then L47, L44, L46, L525, L45, L493 and L292. He is also positive for L292, which is after L493.
I checked Venter's SNP list for all of the SNPs descendant of U106 to be thorough. He is negative for all of them except the group which I sometimes call a "SNP cascade" descendant of L48 via L47 as mentioned above.
Comments about Haplogroup assignment of R1b1a2a1a1. (also known as U106/S21+)
Rev. Thomas Picton came to United States in the late 1700's from Wales. Rev. Thomas Picton had a father named Owen Picton, a grandfather named John Picton of Ty'rBwlch Farm and an uncle named Thomas Picton of Ty'rBwlch Farm. I am descendant from Thomas Picton of Ty'rBwlch Farm so we are related to Rev. Thomas Picton. I have pictures on this website of Ty'rBwlch Farm. Ty'rBwlch Farm is now part of a national park and it is even against the law to pick a flower from the yard because at the top of the hill above Ty'rBwlch Farm is where the stones for Stone Hinge were mined. One can go there, walk around where my ancestors lived and even stay at Trellyffaint Farm where my ancestor another Owen Picton lived about 500 years ago.
We have compared my DNA to a descendant of Rev. Thomas Picton and proved we are related. I think we differ by 1 marker when comparing 43 DYS martkers. There is a marker mutation rate so there should be a difference. Almost every male from my line with the last name Picton has DNA with the test results of R1b U106-S21+ and we all would tested positive for L48, L47, L44, L46, L525, L45, and L493.
The Picton family are descendant from Philip Picton born 1240 in Pembrokeshire, Wales. He is believed to be the younger brother of Sir William Picton of Picton Castle in Pembrokeshire, Wales. Descendants of Sir William Picton through his daughter Joan Picton still live at Picton Castle, which makes this the longest known and documented living place by one family in the world. Picton Castle is one of the better and I feel beautiful castles in Wales.
Wizo the Fleming
The following statement I found at Picton Castle, Pembrokeshire, Wales about Picton at the time nine hundred years ago: "Year 1108
Henry I (of England) settled a large force of Flemings, who had been displaced from Flanders by inundations of the sea. In the centref of Rhos and the western half of Daugleddau.
Wizo, the Flemish warlord seized the latter area, built a motte and bailey castle at Wiston (Wizo’s ton or settlement) about 3 miles NNE of Picton, and this became his base for the subjection of the area. At first his knights would have lived in his household at Wiston, but after the pacification of the district they were planted on estates for FEES, one of which was Picton. The original earth work castle of Picton stands a few hundred yards East of the present castle entrance."
Below stated on a website by Brian Picton Swann
Another question is will the Haplogroup assignment of R-493 (R1b1a2a1a1c2b1a1a1a) help show where the Picton family came from a 1000 years ago?
My two-penny worth on all this is that there has been quite a lot done on migration patterns of the Normans settling into Wales - but, of course, it does not lend itself to a couple of paragraphs on a Bulletin Board posting. It is quite a complex subject and quite a lot has been written about it. Likewise on the subject of Knight's Fees and what that entailed at this and later times. But let me quote two paragraphs from John Davies, A History of Wales, 2nd Edition, 2007, pp. 110-111.
The knights' fees were organised on a manorial basis, a system which may not have differed greatly from that of the maenor which had existed in parts of Wales before the coming of the Normans. The earliest records concerning the knights' fees are two hundred years later than the reign of Henry I (1100-1135); they show that most of the tenants of the manors in the Vale of Glamorgan bore English names, and they contain no suggestion that the tenants were recent incomers. It is clear therefore that English peasants, as well as Norman knights had migrated to Wales, not only to the Vale of Glamorgan but also to the Gower peninsula, Pembroke and Gwent Is Coed. As the history of Ireland amply proves, a dense settlement of peasants is always a more effective way of consolidating conquest than a thin layer of gentry. The ethnic nature of the most fertile areas of the southern fringes of Wales was changed by immigrants whom the Welsh were unable fully to assimilate.
Of these colonizations, the only one referred to in contemporary sources is that mentioned by Brut y Tywysogyon (Chronicles of the Princes) in its entry for 1105. The Brut states that in that year Henry I allowed a colony of Flemings to settle in the cantrefi (approximately equivalent to later-day Hundreds) of Rhos and Daugleddau in southern Dyfed (Pembrokeshire). According to Giraldus Cambrensis, they received the special patronage of the crown and although the Welsh sought on several occasions to expel them, the character of the region settled by them was transformed to such an extent that only seven of the almost fifty parishes of the two cantrefi bear Welsh names.
I hope we will gradually get a better sense of how these links may go across the Channel - the two obvious places are to the Low Countries (Flanders and Picardy) and to Normandy.
I hope also that we may stand a chance of getting a real UK surname expert, such as George Redmonds, to come to the next WDYTYA. Rumour has it that he is collaborating with Mark Jobling's group at Leicester University on this subject. I suspect that these migrations were step-wise processes for the bulk of the migrants involved.
Last Modified Feb 2021
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